tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post1695989237051217330..comments2024-03-28T06:14:54.076-04:00Comments on And So It Begins...: My Favorite Scene: Grizzly ManAlex Withrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-12594189305409084882018-07-25T15:15:28.248-04:002018-07-25T15:15:28.248-04:00I hear what you're saying, as this scene has b...I hear what you're saying, as this scene has been accused of being horribly manipulative, but it still hits for me. I do like the scene you pointed out as well. And I remember that mortician being a tad odd. Thanks for commenting on all these old posts, it's fun to go through and read them again!Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-82680477071099645982018-07-25T09:13:37.182-04:002018-07-25T09:13:37.182-04:00GOD this scene . . . it's actually the *one* s...GOD this scene . . . it's actually the *one* scene in the movie I can't STAND. I'll tell you why, and offer another scene of (I think) greater emotional impact and interest. For Herzog to keep this scene in the movie speaks volumes about his perspective and goal, I think. He won't SHOW any footage, though he WILL show *himself listening to it.* Why? What do we gain from WATCHING him listen to it? I'm not saying he should have included any of it, because of course I'm not. That would be all SORTS of messed-up. I don't have time to humor the notion that it should have been revealed or anything. But it DOES create a vacuum in the film for me—WHY SHOW HIM LISTENING TO IT? And even *worse,* WHY show him instructing HER to "never listen" to it!? To (unbelievably) DESTROY it!??? It's infuriatingly pompous, self-important, frustrating in the extreme. It literally does NOTHING but inspire interest in listening to it ourselves, and cruelly uses both that poor woman's tears and Herzog's "shocked" reaction for emotional punch. I could go on. But you have to read every one of these comments (I guess), and so I won't. I'll instead point to another very similar scene—the one in which she's given the watch (that was found on his severed arm INSIDE A DAMN BEAR). It's amazing just for that alone, but LOOK AT THE MORTICIAN IN THAT SCENE. He's . . . he's VERY odd. His body language is strange, and you get a general sense of uncanny unease *in addition* to the emotional heft of the rather grim, sad keepsake (still working!)<br /><br />That's what *I* think, anyway. •bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01007438682849559941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-23586544179055010922018-01-22T09:33:49.987-05:002018-01-22T09:33:49.987-05:00Interesting perspective. I personally wouldn't...Interesting perspective. I personally wouldn't want to hear the tape, but I get where you're coming from.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-2579170974396813272018-01-21T20:07:58.965-05:002018-01-21T20:07:58.965-05:00I watched grizzly man many many times
Can't ge...I watched grizzly man many many times<br />Can't get Tim out of of my mind<br />I don't care about herzog<br />Watched his work and he is taking credit for somebody's else work like happy people and grizzly bear<br />Timothy made this movie.i love Tim and am heartbroken over his story.the audio should be included in the mpvie.we know from the start about his horrible suffering in the end and hearing the tape is essential for us who love timothy to have a closure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-11433048682693110032015-09-04T13:20:10.673-04:002015-09-04T13:20:10.673-04:00While I sincerely respect your articulate and thou...While I sincerely respect your articulate and thought-out response, I obviously disagree. Had Herzog included the audio, I'd be with you.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-12246715503444231932015-09-03T18:26:07.807-04:002015-09-03T18:26:07.807-04:00Late to the party here. I love documentaries, and ...Late to the party here. I love documentaries, and have watched several of Herzog's non-narrative films, but when I watched this scene I was outraged. I have since calmed down, but for Herzog to film himself listening to Treadwell die is at best self-indulgent and at worst exploitative to an almost pornographic extreme. I understand that the film is presented as Herzog himself wanting to understand his unique subject, but I think you have to draw a line somewhere when you are presenting material that documents another's life. <br /><br />Listen to the audio if you're given permission to, but don't film yourself doing so. iembalmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08365176000832265150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-71086515828395521212013-03-08T09:47:29.460-05:002013-03-08T09:47:29.460-05:00Yeah man, heavy heavy shit. The old 'Zog getti...Yeah man, heavy heavy shit. The old 'Zog getting emotional. Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-76492078658873546462013-03-08T09:47:05.025-05:002013-03-08T09:47:05.025-05:00Oh and thanks Bonjour for stopping by as well. I a...Oh and thanks Bonjour for stopping by as well. I always appreciate your comments!Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-20801098148951198302013-03-08T09:46:40.177-05:002013-03-08T09:46:40.177-05:00Bob, first off, thanks so much for stopping by and...Bob, first off, thanks so much for stopping by and leaving such an insightful comment. <br /><br />Now, although I've never considered that there is no audio of Treadwell's death, I certainly can't deny that Herzog is willing to lie or leave out truths in order to achieve that grander truth. He openly admits that he staged much of Little Dieter Needs to Fly in order to make the present day Dieter seem more cautious and paranoid. I can recall a few other examples of him bending the truth as well, but I've got to tell you, if it was revealed that there was no audio in this Grizzly Man tape, I would be very offended. Or rather cheated. Herzog will always be one of my favorite directors, but that'd be low, in my opinion.<br /><br />Either way, damn interesting thought. Thanks again for stopping by!Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-41613823253698382022013-03-08T05:32:10.813-05:002013-03-08T05:32:10.813-05:00That was definitely the most powerful scene in the...That was definitely the most powerful scene in the film for me.Tylerhttp://magnoliaforever.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-64767911339322627552013-03-08T03:33:23.560-05:002013-03-08T03:33:23.560-05:00I agree, it's totally within Herzog's bag ...I agree, it's totally within Herzog's bag of tricks to do just that. But it doesn't matter because the result on the audience is the same.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00597866901901238462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-13043741724968416562013-03-07T20:48:27.894-05:002013-03-07T20:48:27.894-05:00Great write-up Alex...I waffle between this and Le...Great write-up Alex...I waffle between this and Lessons Of Darkness as my fave of his documentaries.<br /><br />However, I'd like to propose the possibility of a different twist to the scene - that there is in fact no audio of Treadwell's death. Bear with me here (sorry, I didn't actually mean that as a pun...). Herzog is known for trying to find the "ecstatic truth" in a scene - the real core truth of an idea or situation without worrying about the specifics or details. In other words, he doesn't always tell the whole truth in a scene and has even told lies in order to get to the "grander" truth.<br /><br />Though it may seem a bit farfetched that he would pretend to hear the deaths (especially in front of Treadwell's friend), I can't help but have that idea bounce around in mind as something that Herzog would do. Not as a mean-spirited prank, but in order to get a final coda and emotional reaction to this man's death. There's enough footage of him in the film that we get to know him and feel sorry for his passing, but since we know he dies from the outset this audio tape scene is the kicker...<br /><br />It doesn't really matter if the tape exists or not - the scene is just as affecting either way because Jewel's reaction is quite honest and genuine and shows her love for the man. Certainly a grander truth.<br /><br />As obsessed and "nuts" as Herzog is, he's a trickster too. I think he delights in playing with his audience while also getting them to his end goal. One of the reasons I'm a huge fan of his as well.Bob Turnbullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02243657105760780425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-34269591414194278002013-03-07T17:39:43.314-05:002013-03-07T17:39:43.314-05:00I too have wondered if Herzog's listening to t...I too have wondered if Herzog's listening to the tape actually made Jewel more interested in hearing it, or if she just destroyed it right away.<br /><br />The scene you described is so memorable, definitely one of my favorites in the film. It speaks so well to the many facets of Treadwell's personality. <br /><br />Thanks so much for stopping by and commenting, Chip! Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-4112815623760035002013-03-07T11:53:23.012-05:002013-03-07T11:53:23.012-05:00I remember watching that scene and thinking that t...I remember watching that scene and thinking that there is no way that I would ever have listened to the audio. Perhaps Herzog thought that his disconnect from the man (unlike the woman who had the tape) would keep him from being bothered by it. I do wonder if that sequence made the woman even more curious to listen to it, though, and I sometimes think she might have because of it.<br /><br />The scene that I will always remember, for a different reason, is early in the film where a grizzly is standing up rubbing its head on a branch. It drops down to all fours and starts walking towards Treadwell. You can hear the fear in his voice as it approaches. The film then cuts to Treadwell standing in the same spot as the bear was and the branch is something like three or four feet over Treadwell's head. His exclamation, "That's a big bear!" was, if anything, an understatement.Chip Laryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00787403805554027107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-57405581511393686452013-03-06T10:33:14.965-05:002013-03-06T10:33:14.965-05:00Thanks Dan! Always appreciate your very kind comme...Thanks Dan! Always appreciate your very kind comments, my friend.<br /><br />That scene with the fox is just devastating. You're right, he really, truly does care about these animals. What an oddly unique man.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-45511872327595441142013-03-06T10:31:55.628-05:002013-03-06T10:31:55.628-05:00That's so cool that we first saw this scene un...That's so cool that we first saw this scene under such similar circumstances. What you described is exactly what makes the scene so effective. By us <i>watching</i> Herzog listen to it, but actually not hearing it ourselves, it forces us to dare wonder what it sounds like. For instance, if presented with the option, would you listen to the tape? Very unsettling thought, in my opinion.<br /><br />I think I have that exact DVD set - cannot recommend those films highly enough!Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-52362572086705041032013-03-06T10:22:59.081-05:002013-03-06T10:22:59.081-05:00Thanks man! He's made some truly great documen...Thanks man! He's made some truly great documentaries. Very patient, very slow, but very telling. I have yet to see a bad one. Enjoy!Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-25892330345266430822013-03-06T08:19:54.144-05:002013-03-06T08:19:54.144-05:00A very powerful scene, but one of my favorites was...A very powerful scene, but one of my favorites was when Timothy found the dead fox. He was crying and all upset, but you see the real hurt and pain the guy has, and you can't help but feel the same. Just a great movie, overall. Solid stuff bro. Solid stuff.Dan O.http://www.dtmmr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-37998626631648699802013-03-06T01:39:16.687-05:002013-03-06T01:39:16.687-05:00When I watched this scene for the first time (I wa...When I watched this scene for the first time (I was in a doco studies class at uni, and we got to watch this on a nice big screen), I felt like Jewel a little. I was scared, but I was also morbidly curious, and then I was sick with myself for almost wanting to hear it. It was such a weird feeling. Amazing post. I've got a dvd set of five Herzog films that I've been meaning to start for ages now (including Aguirre, Nosferatu and...Woyzeck I think). Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00175638828147935702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-1013919552183420552013-03-06T00:16:18.846-05:002013-03-06T00:16:18.846-05:00Excellent write-up! I've only seen Aguirre: Th...Excellent write-up! I've only seen Aguirre: The Wrath of God and Rescue Dawn, so I've got a lot to discover with Herzog's documentaries.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08596682195753811295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-64850770220902768662013-03-05T19:44:35.726-05:002013-03-05T19:44:35.726-05:00Yes, exactly. That is exactly why I'll never f...Yes, exactly. That is exactly why I'll never forget the scene either. It's written all over Herzog's face, and that was a <i>very</i> humanistic decision of him to not include it in the film. He'll always have top honors in my book, for that reason and many others.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-65724109637901067092013-03-05T19:43:00.382-05:002013-03-05T19:43:00.382-05:00It's funny, because I certainly didn't mea...It's funny, because I certainly didn't mean "chase" in the literal sense, but rather, much more in the vein of, "...the idea of the quest."<br /><br />I meant chase as in the nagging thought or idea in his mind that he has to film in order to subside. <i>Can</i> I fly to an evacuated island to film a volcano that's about to erupt? <i>Can</i> I drag this boat over a mountain and somehow gain a better understanding of myself? <i>Can</i> I shed light on the American justice system by interviewing people who are about to die, even though I think they shouldn't?<br /><br />Those notions, to me, are all about a man chasing an idea or a conflict, either in society or in himself. Herzog doesn't do thrills or excitement, we agree on that. But he does chase, emotionally, spiritually, or otherwise.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-62625741949373389482013-03-05T19:28:36.826-05:002013-03-05T19:28:36.826-05:00That's a scene I will never forget. All becau...That's a scene I will never forget. All because we're watching Herzog listening to a man and woman being mauled to death yet we don't hear the tape. I think he makes a humanistic decision to not reveal the audio. Just by the look of his face and his response is enough for me to realize that I'm glad that tape is destroyed. I don't think I want to hear it either.thevoid99https://www.blogger.com/profile/03055459287396592446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-6970305387646613582013-03-05T19:12:34.513-05:002013-03-05T19:12:34.513-05:00"He makes films out of sport, rather than las..."He makes films out of sport, rather than lasting creative impact. For him, eating a shoe, dragging a boat across a mountain, threatening to kill a lead actor, climbing an about-to-erupt volcano, filming on every continent – it’s all for the thrill of the chase."<br /><br />I don't know. Whatever he's doing, I wouldn't characterize it as 'thrill of the chase'. There is little thrill or feeling of chase in Herzog's films. Rather, Herzog seems to prefer the idea of the quest. <br />A 'chase' is about going after exciting topics. It's like going on a hunt. <br />Herzog prefers things that are slow and heavy. The 'adventure' in FITZCARRALDO is more like dragging a heavy cross than chasing after something thrilling and exciting. <br />The Grizzly bears in GRIZZLY MAN were hardly exciting. And there was no real suspense in the material since we know the guy came to a grisly end. <br />I think Mel Gibson, in APOCALYPTO, took the approach that was closer to a chase, not least because much of the film is literally one long chase. <br />Andrea Ostrov Letaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478113002321077670noreply@blogger.com