tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post3804151605806687124..comments2024-03-28T06:14:54.076-04:00Comments on And So It Begins...: Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired & Odd Man OutAlex Withrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-78993544678389926862014-08-22T18:31:11.604-04:002014-08-22T18:31:11.604-04:00I hadn't seen Odd Man Out either before resear...I hadn't seen Odd Man Out either before researching this post. The difference is really night and day. They don't even feel like they're made by the same person.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-53411364928331381862014-08-22T12:37:30.244-04:002014-08-22T12:37:30.244-04:00I hadn't heard of Odd Man Out, but I do want t...I hadn't heard of Odd Man Out, but I do want to see Wanted and Desired, especially given the gap between your grades.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08596682195753811295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-30647755717460987572014-08-05T10:57:24.175-04:002014-08-05T10:57:24.175-04:00You stop (or seriously hinder) this country's ...You stop (or seriously hinder) this country's love of guns and dependency for drugs, and you'll be elected President. I'm not being flip - genuinely, those are two issues I'm not sure will be amended in our lifetime.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-44733009094490754802014-08-04T16:23:33.282-04:002014-08-04T16:23:33.282-04:00Looking back at what I said, I feel I probably wen...Looking back at what I said, I feel I probably went a little too far with the whole "pariah" thing, but I do still think something should be done. And as for the "people do things because they had a compulsion to do it," of course they do. Everybody has some impulse to do bad things at some point in their life. But they know not to. Narcotics, however, obscure this judgement. But, there are some who do drink responsibly, so I suppose there are people who light up a joint responsibly or shoot up responsibly. So perhaps not a full-fledged ban, but I think a strong regulation wouldn't be uncalled for. Like gun control, but with drugs.Nick9000https://www.blogger.com/profile/04850668284839130387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-90425818557059077682014-08-04T16:12:28.030-04:002014-08-04T16:12:28.030-04:00I see what both of you are saying here, but I do a...I see what both of you are saying here, but I do agree more to Sati's point. Just because someone takes or drinks something, that doesn't mean that substance automatically makes them engage in criminal behavior. The drug war is a whole new topic that we could all endlessly debate about. But, as Sati said, if someone does something, drunk or sober, it's because they had a compulsion to do it already.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-21589733459502956922014-08-04T16:09:02.873-04:002014-08-04T16:09:02.873-04:00Thanks man, I appreciate you reading. You didn'...Thanks man, I appreciate you reading. You didn't come off as jumbled at all, I completely get what you're saying. And I agree with you in full. I'll be curious to hear what you think of the films when/if you check them out. They're very enlightening, and rather terrifying.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-40254346748139463812014-08-04T16:06:24.721-04:002014-08-04T16:06:24.721-04:00Very well said. I couldn't agree more, truly. ...Very well said. I couldn't agree more, truly. I love your von Trier rants, by the way. That man is on a whole different level of crazy.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-55602369726715062872014-08-04T05:38:14.351-04:002014-08-04T05:38:14.351-04:00It doesn't work that way. Adult people should ...It doesn't work that way. Adult people should be able to try what they want and be expected not to act like animals afterwards, it's their responsibly. Under law if you take drugs you are responsible as if you were completely lucid because when taking drugs you should have realized you may act in certain way and take precaution against it. What you are suggesting is basically just a step away from prohibition. By all means let's shun people who use their freedom to consume and never hurt anyone. If someone rapes a child, it's not because they took a Quaalude it's because they wanted to do it, deep down. <br /><br />As for Allen being brought up they are both directors accused of similar crimes, except with Polanski he was proven guilty and Allen innocent, but in sheep mentality it doesn't mean much, given how just few weeks back people wanted to kill him based on just one letter that showed up online.s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13987831438787776712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-67313829198430614002014-08-04T00:03:53.526-04:002014-08-04T00:03:53.526-04:00Polanski. I had a feeling this issue would come up...Polanski. I had a feeling this issue would come up on this blog eventually. Me, personally, I think he should have done more time than he did. And concerning the whole "don't convict him because he's a great artist" mentality, he already made his best work by that time anyway, so it's not like we'd have missed out on anything major (well, except The Pianist). But what makes me sad about this case is that if this one thing hadn't happened, he could've been viewed as being a tragic figure, what with him having survived the Holocaust and his pregnant wife being murdered, but since he committed this act he'll forever be remembered as a pervert. It's almost as if some sort of cosmic deity was punishing him before the fact (I'm not saying that it lets him off the hook, I don't even believe in cosmic deities, it's just an observation).<br /><br />Looking through these comments, I've noticed Woody Allen's name brought up a few times, but I don't think he deserves such a bad reputation. I mean, we may never know what happened with Dylan Farrow, but before that came up, people were boycotting his films because of his relationship with Soon-Yi Previn, which I myself don't think is that bad. Unorthodox, yes, but they're not blood related and she was over 18 when they started dating. I can see why it would be controversial, but I can't see why so many people think of it as some sort of grand cardinal sin.<br /><br />I also want to bring up another serious issue that no one else has really mentioned that I think is still applicable is the issue of narcotics. Polanski claims to have taken a quaalude when he committed the crime. This is exactly why we need to strengthen our fight against narcotics, because this is what it leads to. Most crimes that are committed in the world: thievery, rape, murder, prostitution, etc. can be traced back to narcotics usage. I know we're working on that, but we need to do more. We need to make drugs uncool. I how they became "cool" to use, but we need to reverse that ASAP. If you know anyone who's done drugs, even if they were "just experimenting", especially if they were "just experimenting", shun them. Make them pariahs. Because the message isn't getting across as well as it needs to be. It doesn't matter if it's "just one joint in college", if someone consumes drugs, they're doing serious damage. Even if they don't hurt anyone directly, they're putting money into the hands of people who do. I know some of this sounds harsh, but I feel it needs to be done. Nick9000https://www.blogger.com/profile/04850668284839130387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-81865812516618613322014-08-02T16:27:12.024-04:002014-08-02T16:27:12.024-04:00I've been thinking about this article for a co...I've been thinking about this article for a couple of days now and I'm still not sure whether or not I have anything to really add to the discussion that you have proposed and that people like Sati thevoid99, Irene, and Tapia haven't already brought up. Frankly, I dig quite a few of Polanski's films and like Woody Allen and Lars von Trier, I am able to separate their work from their personal lives. <br /><br />I don't know any of these people, Woody Allen might like really young girls but then again that's something that's been used in films before him and after him and there's plenty of people who are far more sick than him. I'm not trying to justify his actions, but to me simply saying he prefers younger women isn't reason enough to take against him. I don't condone any sort of rape or sex with minors in any way (though let's not fool ourselves into thinking that some kids around that age aren't already having sex), but like everyone else has said, they are the only ones who know what happened. Same thing with Polanski (except he has been proved guilty). I love some of his movies for sure, but as a person I once again can't comment. I don't know the guy - he might be the nicest guy alive but now that he has a stigma on him he is forever branded. I don't think that what he's done is reason enough to kick him out of directing or anything - no matter what a person has done, I do believe that every person deserves a second chance and a chance at happiness (as long as it isn't at the expense of another person/people). We all make mistakes and I truly do believe that everyone does stupid shit (granted this is a very extreme reduction of his crime) throughout their entire lives and are entitled to be given a chance to redeem themselves for it. It's not some from any religious point of view from which I speak (in fact several religious organizations would probably disagree with me on this - as I'm sure many other non-affiliated people would as well) but from one where I do believe in human decency and that everyone is entitled to make up for their mistakes if they truly mean to. Perhaps a bit childish but everyone is worthy of a second chance. In the case of von Trier, for all I know he may be a misogynist but I feel that he is one of the few directors out there who is at least willing to tell stories from the perspective of a woman that are dark, gritty, cruel, among other things. He doesn't shy away from sexuality or the brutality that exist in the world and like Bergman (though certainly not to the same heights as Bergman), he gives the world of cinema some of it's most unique and interesting takes of woman and is one of the filmmakers I respect most today - but that's just me. <br /><br />I'm sure this will probably just come off as a jumbled assembly of thoughts that aren't wholly coherent and don't have anything to add to the discussion here that hasn't already been said. I'm not even sure if I'd be able to formulate my thoughts/opinions into something more understandable in person. This is just one of those topics that kind of erks people, and for good reason, it's uncomfortable but definitely worthy of discussion. So good on you sir for bringing it up. I will have to track down these docs! maskofgojirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18305737005899440472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-60915804382877920212014-08-01T21:09:49.589-04:002014-08-01T21:09:49.589-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/03147894066532730654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-8078203997991182502014-08-01T19:17:15.489-04:002014-08-01T19:17:15.489-04:00If I may, what he has done cannot go unpunished. R...If I may, what he has done cannot go unpunished. Rape is such a horrid crime that regardless of victim's wishes now or the age of the criminal it shouldn't go unpunished. Once the victim wishes the crime to be persecuted the things are set in motion and they should end in justice being served, but unfortunately here it wasn't.s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13987831438787776712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-74721007254819498242014-08-01T19:13:35.486-04:002014-08-01T19:13:35.486-04:00I'm a lawyer now, well, a slave in courthouse ...I'm a lawyer now, well, a slave in courthouse really, so thankfully the silly years of law school and Polanski being the subject of the lectures whenever something new is revealed are behind me. But really, the amount of people excusing him because of his past is horrifying.<br /><br />I think directing is a skill - a tremendous skill if done right and even people who are terrible posses that gift. Understanding how to make a film has nothing to do with one's demons. Writing, maybe, but Polanski's film never really came close to the subject of his crimes. He is a good director, but the person he is shouldn't be in link to it. One can of course feel distasteful about the director's actions watching it but when it comes to film, it seems to me it's a separate thing.<br /><br />I despise Von Trier but I still appreciated Melancholia. I think Polanski should be jailed but Repulsion is still in my all time top 30. People have issues but art goes beyond that, it's its own entity, separate from one person involved in making it.s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13987831438787776712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-38352093398008678242014-08-01T17:01:04.312-04:002014-08-01T17:01:04.312-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/03147894066532730654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-351249640485918742014-08-01T16:05:30.464-04:002014-08-01T16:05:30.464-04:00That's a fascinating discussion, and, yes, one...That's a fascinating discussion, and, yes, one that presumably has no firm resolution. I suppose it's a case-by-case basis, you know? You could go on for hours examining the crimes of different artists and asking yourself, "Is this one <i>okay</i> to forgive?"<br /><br />Also, I almost went to UNC. Loved that school!Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-49202576306703568162014-08-01T16:02:23.392-04:002014-08-01T16:02:23.392-04:00Yeah, that's the way I feel about that case as...Yeah, that's the way I feel about that case as well.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-6007882457464194822014-08-01T16:02:08.396-04:002014-08-01T16:02:08.396-04:00That is a very interesting question and one I'...That is a very interesting question and one I've never asked myself. You've given me food for thought. :-)<br /><br />I participated in a class discussion about this art vs. artist question in a philosophy course at UNC. The only specific example I remember discussing was Ezra Pound, who was a gifted poet and a fascist. It's difficult to simultaneously admire the beauty and wisdom in his poetry and be aware of his political convictions. And I've always admired the work of impressionist painter Paul Gaugin, who is believed to have knowingly infected women and girls with syphilis (some as young as 13). :-( Granted it didn't affect his ability to paint, but ...<br /><br />Anyway, in this philosophy discussion, many of us went back and forth on whether a work of art should stand on its own merits or whether it's inseparable from the morality of its creator -- we had trouble settling on a firm position. Even now, 25 years later, I haven't quite made up my mind. :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06574641672605054506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-67361344876830962122014-08-01T16:01:51.792-04:002014-08-01T16:01:51.792-04:00It’s a very risky topic to discuss, so I wasn’t ex...It’s a very risky topic to discuss, so I wasn’t expecting a big reader turnout, which is perfectly understandable. Your opinion on the crime is interesting, one that, in my experience in discussing this case with people, is a stance that many men take. Does time (or time served) allow us to forgive certain crimes? If, say, Polanski had been sentenced to 10 years in prison, and served every day of those 10 years, would he be forgiven by all? I suppose we’ll never know.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-55757464745210323842014-08-01T15:17:32.927-04:002014-08-01T15:17:32.927-04:00You are definitely right, it is a very difficult a...You are definitely right, it is a very difficult and obviously controversial subject to talk about. I don't even want to go near the Woody Allen case, since no one actually knows what happened...Aditya Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-662629911254961162014-08-01T12:24:08.448-04:002014-08-01T12:24:08.448-04:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/03147894066532730654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-29878058641131876212014-08-01T12:03:04.021-04:002014-08-01T12:03:04.021-04:00Ha, thanks man. Truth, though. Definitely how the ...Ha, thanks man. Truth, though. Definitely how the films portrays him.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-57792992124923338262014-08-01T11:29:15.112-04:002014-08-01T11:29:15.112-04:00"...is presented as a maniacal blowhard; a st..."...is presented as a maniacal blowhard; a star fucker who actively fought to preside over celebrity cases..."<br /><br />That's the best sentence I'm going to read all month. I'm still laughing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18383538047507625106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-56058740415104203712014-08-01T11:25:25.528-04:002014-08-01T11:25:25.528-04:00I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on bot...I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on both films, if you can track them down. Very complex stuff all around. Thanks so much for stopping by and commenting, I know this isn't necessarily an easy topic to talk about.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-19100660228935552802014-08-01T11:23:25.511-04:002014-08-01T11:23:25.511-04:00Regarding the art vs. artist argument, I do have a...Regarding the art vs. artist argument, I do have a question for you. If an artist has done something that disgusts you (specifically if it is one singular act, like the Polanski case), then it is okay to appreciate all of the art he made <i>before</i> he committed the crime? Polanski’s crime happened in 1977, so it is all right to appreciate Repulsion (‘65), Rosemary’s Baby (‘68), Chinatown (‘74), and so on? Or is it cut and dry, hate everything he ever made, not matter when he made it? It might seem like an odd question, but it’s something I think about.<br /><br />Personally, I used to dig Chris Brown’s music. But since he beat up Rihanna, I find all of his work disgusting, even the songs he made <i>before</i> he committed the crime. Funny how that works.Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4784665635104956142.post-38616526304034149842014-08-01T11:11:40.128-04:002014-08-01T11:11:40.128-04:00Thanks so much for this comment. I was honestly ve...Thanks so much for this comment. I was honestly very curious to hear your thoughts on these films and/or the case itself. I imagine, as a law student, that you hear about this case a lot, and I really appreciate your perspective and insight into it.<br /><br />The matter of judging the art vs. the artist a very interesting argument. In terms of film and movies, I fully agree with what you said. I suppose, as lame as this may sound, I have such a respect for well-made films, that I’m able to separate the final product, from whatever previous misdeeds the people who created that product have committed in their lives. A few years ago, it was discovered that Klaus Kinski routinely molested his own daughter, which is a horrid and disgusting thing. But does that mean I’m never going to watch Aguirre, the Wrath of God, Fitzcarraldo or Woyzeck again...?<br /><br />And the Woody Allen thing… yeah, I don’t even go near that one. There’s no doubt that the act did indeed take place with the Polanski case, but none of us will ever really know what happened between Woody Allen and that girl.<br /><br />Oh, and one final thought from me, I also fully agree with you that no matter what a person has been through in his or her life (like living through the Holocaust or enduring your wife’s murder), nothing justifies future crimes they may commit. Alex Withrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887018476048271594noreply@blogger.com